Right off the top, the answers have to be that there is no one hard-and-fast rule, and, "It depends." Do you have a specific time (by decade) and place (country, city-state, republic, duchy, city, region) in mind?
It's easier to provide you with useful or helpful answers if you have a specific time and location in mind. It's going to be easier to make any decisions if you commit firmly to one century or the other (I'm finding your post to be unclear.) I've read that it's considered bad form on LJ or Facebook to correct anyone, but you've mentioned the 15th Century, and the late 1500s. That covers two consecutive centuries. The fifteenth century is 1401-1500 C.E. Centuries take their "ordinary" names from the year in which they end; there is no year Zero, so if you "start counting off centuries," you'll begin with "One. Two. Three. Four," through One-Hundred. That's the First Century C.E.
During the fifteenth century (1400s) there are a number of changes in fashion which take place, and some of those fashions are quite distinctive. For a lot of the time and geographic designations at this time, a "kirtle" is not something seen outside the home, generally. It is informal wear. Out of doors/in public, something else would have been worn over it. The kirtle in the 1400s also functioned, we believe, as a type of foundation or shaping garment, supporting the breasts.
The closures might change, and the embellishments, too, between 1401 and 1500; between 1501 and 1600; and very probably between 1401 and 1600. However, having said that, I also must say that many will stay the same: a lot depends on the "order," in this case meaning socio-economic status. ("Class" I have been told be one professional historian, is a misnomer. She explained to me why, but I've forgotten, although somewhere I do still have the e-message she had sent me.)
The placement of the placket on the bodice may vary, too, not just by "orders" but by regional/geographic or national preferences and at which point in time. In parts of the Italian peninsula, and especially in Venice, during the mid- to late-1500s, side-back lacing is favored. In much of Italy during the 1400s, side (underarm side-seam or -seams) lacing is preferred. In Florence during da Vinci's heyday, you'll see the "kirtle" laced up the front with lacing rings, which are essentially concealed by being sewn to the inside of the placket. There's a portrait of Mary Magdalen (identified by her attribute, the jar of ointment) by van der Weyden, showing what seems to be a Flemish kirtle laced up the front with lacing rings and "narrow wares" of ribbon or cord. But there are examples in the 1500s of side-back lacing with eyelets worked straight through the fashion fabric, its interlining, interfacings (if applicable), and lining.
There are numerous foreign influences in several countries or "city states," depending on where your "persona" is located and when, and what those influences were, and those you would need to sort out, as well.
Both the importance and the relevance or appropriateness of the skirt trim will be likewise relative, but there is also the question of proportions, e.g., your overall height and your waist-to-ground measurement.
Bet this hasn't helped *at all.* But you know you can always PM me.
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Date: 2009-04-08 04:07 pm (UTC)Do you have a specific time (by decade) and place (country, city-state, republic, duchy, city, region) in mind?
It's easier to provide you with useful or helpful answers if you have a specific time and location in mind.
It's going to be easier to make any decisions if you commit firmly to one century or the other (I'm finding your post to be unclear.) I've read that it's considered bad form on LJ or Facebook to correct anyone, but you've mentioned the 15th Century, and the late 1500s. That covers two consecutive centuries.
The fifteenth century is 1401-1500 C.E. Centuries take their "ordinary" names from the year in which they end; there is no year Zero, so if you "start counting off centuries," you'll begin with "One. Two. Three. Four," through One-Hundred. That's the First Century C.E.
During the fifteenth century (1400s) there are a number of changes in fashion which take place, and some of those fashions are quite distinctive. For a lot of the time and geographic designations at this time, a "kirtle" is not something seen outside the home, generally. It is informal wear. Out of doors/in public, something else would have been worn over it. The kirtle in the 1400s also functioned, we believe, as a type of foundation or shaping garment, supporting the breasts.
The closures might change, and the embellishments, too, between 1401 and 1500; between 1501 and 1600; and very probably between 1401 and 1600. However, having said that, I also must say that many will stay the same: a lot depends on the "order," in this case meaning socio-economic status. ("Class" I have been told be one professional historian, is a misnomer. She explained to me why, but I've forgotten, although somewhere I do still have the e-message she had sent me.)
The placement of the placket on the bodice may vary, too, not just by "orders" but by regional/geographic or national preferences and at which point in time. In parts of the Italian peninsula, and especially in Venice, during the mid- to late-1500s, side-back lacing is favored. In much of Italy during the 1400s, side (underarm side-seam or -seams) lacing is preferred.
In Florence during da Vinci's heyday, you'll see the "kirtle" laced up the front with lacing rings, which are essentially concealed by being sewn to the inside of the placket.
There's a portrait of Mary Magdalen (identified by her attribute, the jar of ointment) by van der Weyden, showing what seems to be a Flemish kirtle laced up the front with lacing rings and "narrow wares" of ribbon or cord.
But there are examples in the 1500s of side-back lacing with eyelets worked straight through the fashion fabric, its interlining, interfacings (if applicable), and lining.
There are numerous foreign influences in several countries or "city states," depending on where your "persona" is located and when, and what those influences were, and those you would need to sort out, as well.
Both the importance and the relevance or appropriateness of the skirt trim will be likewise relative, but there is also the question of proportions, e.g., your overall height and your waist-to-ground measurement.
Bet this hasn't helped *at all.*
But you know you can always PM me.